[Loth] Risen / Necromancy upgrade

95 votes

Risen are a really bad unit. At the begining, with few options available, they are somewhat ok, but later in the game they are just in the way, despite of the undead general upgrades.

I suggest to add an upgrade to the risen, through research (advanced necromancy) that upgrade their usefulness and maybe give them guard or rush (increase movement for 1 turn) or something useful.

They should be at least on par with rats (without upgrades) since rats CAN be made much better either way.

Suggestion Suggested by: Game kNight Plays (16 May, '22) • Upvoted: 01 Apr • Comments: 23

Comments: 23

16 May, '22
Daimadoushi Merged
I don't aggree with this, I think the risen is fun and strong, especially the unit cap for the stack is big, so potentially stronger than the human it comes from. Maybe an upgraded version could be nice though.

A quality of life thing would be to have the wielder first choose the level up option before necromancy happens. A lot of time, I just dont have space left in the army for the risen which is sad. Maybe if not taken in the army, the risen can be send to the nearest town ?
17 May, '22
Vaultjumper
A way to balance it would be to put it behind research in a large building
17 May, '22
Arisu Merged
It is quite weak as of now and only rewards you for making extremely bad tactical decisions and suffering major casualties, like losing your cultists, toxicologists or scholars. None of those are "infantry" type units to really benefit from sacrificing them in battle, and what you are receiving for it is usually so minor that you are better off discarding it and replacing free zombies with your normal faction units.
17 May, '22
Krzysztof Merged
100% agree on this, zombies are the worst unit in the game, with stack limit at least give us the option to rise them from enemy living creatures.

On the other side I would like some kind of resurrecting undead creatures, because thats what make necromancy fun, especially with upgreaded abilitie for blessed bones (sacrificing 1 whole unit with the stack size of 5 to get temporary 15 skeletons?) which is very situational.
17 May, '22
Game kNight Plays
I agree - putting it in research would make it viable - right now it's just annoying to have to click them away every time you end a fight.
17 May, '22
Game kNight Plays Merged
Similar suggestion to my suggestion, maybe merge them?
https://songsofconquest.featureupvote.com/suggestions/300157/loth-risen-upgrade
17 May, '22
Game kNight Plays Merged
Similar to my suggestion, maybe merge them: https://songsofconquest.featureupvote.com/suggestions/300157/loth-risen-upgrade
17 May, '22
Munin Admin
"Rework necromancy mechanic for Loth" (suggested by Arisu on 2022-05-17), including upvotes (5) and comments (1), was merged into this suggestion.
17 May, '22
Munin Admin
@Game kNight Plays Done! :)
17 May, '22
Titan_Dev
I agree. I think a good solution would be to allow you to pay gold to upgrade the unit to a human unit.
05 Jul, '22
TheBlasterPastor Admin
"Upgraded versions of the Risen?" (suggested by Agaton Dandenell on 2022-07-03), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
22 Jul, '22
Bright Drive
Perhaps Upgraded Risen might be made by upgraded units dying. It makes sense that stronger humans make for stronger undead right? So if a bunch of necromancers die for example, they get turned into Upgraded Risen.
08 Aug, '22
Mirko Merged
Hello, I think Barony of loth is losing its potential. Necromancy fraction was my favorite in Heroes, but not in soc, and I will tell you why and also how you can improve that. 3 bad things are:
1. You will get Risen just from human units
2. Risen are so weak and bad
3. Risen literally block and take up space for better units in your weilder

There is litteraly no reason to play with Risen units after a few turns.

So you can improve that by:
1. Make that you will get Risen from all units
2. Buff Risen stats
3. Make one extra space (10th space) exlusivelly for Risen in your weilder.

I think if you will make any 2 of that 3 improvings, Barony will get his potencial and will be funny to play. My and my brother are huge Heroes fans and we agreed on this bad state of "necromancy" fraction
09 Aug, '22
TheBlasterPastor Admin
"Buff Risen/undead units in barony of loth" (suggested by Mirko on 2022-08-08), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
09 Aug, '22
TheBlasterPastor Admin
"Loth necromancy overhaul" (suggested by Michal on 2022-05-16), including upvotes (25) and comments (3), was merged into this suggestion.
09 Aug, '22
TheBlasterPastor Admin
Admin note: merged similar threads, updated title.
18 Dec, '22
Cid
Unit slots are one of the most valuable resources, and using any of them for such a weak unit doesn't make sense. I never use them. Even a single musician unit would be more valuable. The whole mechanic of raising them after battles might as well go away for all I care.
15 Jan, '23
Nikimoney
What if Loth heroes got a skill they could upgrade and/or artifacts, like Necromancy in HoMM3? Either make Risen valuable, or make them valuable in quantity and give us the quantity. Or make it so that Risen is just for the early game, and the necromancy later on adapts to give you different units (either already existing concepts or give us upgrades to them).
Currently, they're worth less than trash units with their stats, they give no essence, and add absolutely nothing of value after the very early game. I am literally better off filling the command slot with a single necromancer or something for more essence generation.
04 Apr, '23
Adam
Risen feel almost useless in practice -- spawn rate is way, way too low, obviously stats are bad but I think that can be OK if spawn rate increases significantly.
04 Aug, '23
Krauser
Would be cool if their numbers could grow in battle. Like a poison effect on hit that if lethal, creates a risen.
04 Mar
Danse_Macabre
Hi ;)
Below I will list my suggestions on "necromancy" and "Risen"
04 Mar
Danse_Macabre
1. It would be a change from "Risen" to "Oathbound" (with time to "Legionnaire", with the help of
research in "Library of Aurelia" or "Forum of the Unseen" buildings).
2. Reworking necromancy to be similar to that of "HOMM V: Tribes of the East" with the restriction that was also present in that part of the game ;).
3. Creation of artifacts related to it, which, for example: would increase the % of resurrected creatures, change/evolve resurrected creatures, strengthen their stats.
4. A separate category of necromancy in "research" related to improving/evolving resurrected beings and strengthening their stats.
5. Resurrecting "Spectre", because they are quite useful, mobile, generate 2 arcana and ignore the "Zone of Control" + the possibility of upgrading them.
6. Replacing "Risen" with a new unit "Vampires", it would be a mobile unit that sucks the life out of enemies (resurrecting itself)+ maybe ignoring "Zone of Control".
7. New spell, only for Lotf "Animate" from "HOMM III" ;).
05 Mar
Danse_Macabre
+ 8. Necromancy related to "Oathbound" and their number, which would have maybe 4lv. And how it would work:
at 1lv resurrecting the "Oathbound",
at 2lv resurrecting the "Legionnaire",
at 3lv having "2 or 3 or 4" full troops of "Legionnaires" would transforming (player dependent) into "Legion" in a certain amount,
at 4lv (as if there were to be one) transforming the "Legion" into a certain number of "High Legion".